Escaping the Founder Trap: Maturing Your Agency Thesis

Agency founders often hit a growth ceiling when they act as the 'hero' and tie their personal identity to the daily roller coaster of their company. To successfully mature their organization, owners must decouple themselves from the business by establishing clear career frameworks, setting firm expectations, and learning how to properly delegate.

I joined Adam Weil to on the Pixel Perfect podcast discuss these strategies and share actionable advice on how founders can finally make their business work for them.

What is the 'Maturing Your Agency' Thesis?

Adam Weil: All right. Okay, Albert, excited to have you on. Let's start with just hearing a little bit about what you're currently working on, what you're excited about, and what challenges you're currently facing right now.

Albert Banks: Absolutely. It is a wild time out there for agencies and service businesses. So I'm just trying to work to help them navigate whatever challenges they're facing, whether it be operational, financial, with employees, or even some M&A activity.

Adam Weil: Great. Yeah. I'm really excited for this conversation. You sent over some great questions ahead of our conversation, and I think this is just a very relevant topic for agencies, especially around what you've called the 'maturing your agency' thesis. Can you tell us a little bit about that? What are the ideas around that? And then we'll get into the weeds on it in a little bit.

Albert Banks: Absolutely, yeah. You know, I say my why is to help founders or owners mature and achieve. And I never say 'grow' specifically, because that's something that's unique to each individual organization, but specifically, the founder has to help the organization mature, right? It's their business. Oftentimes there are psychological or operational shifts that they really need to make as they go on this journey. And I want to help them understand that scale may not be a specific metric or it may not be head count. Their relationship with the business needs to grow and change, perhaps making themselves even irrelevant, making sure that their team understands the direction, there are clear expectations, and helping them live with this thing that's so entrenched in their lives and make it a benefit rather than a burden.

Why Should Agency Founders Stop Playing the Hero?

Adam Weil: And I guess why would they go on that journey? It sounds like you're talking about stepping back from the business in a way, being less of almost a hero. So what are the benefits of getting beyond that and changing that type of model?

Albert Banks: Right. I think that we as owners and founders often have to put on a mask that we've got everything covered, everything's good, we're the hero. But ultimately, your organization's an organism, right? There are various parts and pieces, and rather than think you need to be the one to always fix the problems, you have your team there. And if you don't allow them to help solve problems, there's a sort of learned helplessness that will exist in your business. I love the phrase "Who, not how," so finding the right people to do the right things. I did it at my business. I thought every problem I had to solve and figure out how to fix it, but ultimately the better path is figuring out who can help you fix it, whether it's a member of your staff, whether it's a third party like White Rabbit Group, whether it's a bookkeeper, whatever it may be. And so to ultimately grow and feel successful in your business, sometimes it is handing it off to someone who's better suited for it than you.

Adam Weil: Yeah, that's an interesting one because I've seen some agencies when they hire, I think they hire someone who's going to handle a very specific task. And a lot of times they actually know how to do that task. And so they're just teaching someone to do that, so it saves them time. So I think that's one way of hiring. And sure, I think that could work. But it seems like a very limited model because you're just assigning that one task, you're the best at it, you're now teaching them, and then that's what they do. And now you have some time back. Versus, I see other teams will hire someone to be more autonomous and to solve a problem that they don't even know how to solve. But I think the challenge with that is how do you know how to find the right person if you don't know what the solution is to the problem or even what the problems are. So how do you think about that? Is there a time and place for either hire, or should you only look at one or the other?

Albert Banks: No, I do think it's both. I mean, the first scenario you described is you may know how to do it and you're going to teach someone else to do it or hire somebody, but are you doing twenty-five dollar an hour work when you really, as the owner, should be doing thousand dollar strategic growth work, right? So yes, you're changing your hours, but you're actually spending your time on the things that really only you can do and you're the most valuable at, and offloading those things that others can do and are perfectly capable of doing just as well, if not better, than you. The other camp is some self-assessment, right? Is this something that I can figure out, or are there truly experts out there? And there are, right? Folks like me, and there's a huge network of folks that can help, whether it be with operations, finance, marketing, sales support, implementing tools—there is this ecosystem of folks out there to help. And we're there and available. So a lot of times it's just identifying what your challenge actually is, and there are going to be partners and folks out there. How you can find them is very likely through watching podcasts or asking your network and your peers around how they solved a particular problem and if anybody helped them with it.

Adam Weil: Yeah, that's good advice. Talk to your network. Don't rush into a decision. I think references is one of the most underutilized parts of a process is talking with people that they've worked with. I think you learn so much in that process.

How Can Founders Define the Right Goals for Their Agency?

Adam Weil: So what do you suggest to a founder who wants to make this change? Where's the first place that you recommend that they put their energy into? Or are there questions that you ask to try to reveal what that first place should be?

Albert Banks: Absolutely. I love this concept of 'enough life' or 'enough number.' So I think the first step is to look internally. You know, sometimes you're in peer groups, which is a great accomplishment, but maybe you're hearing these big numbers of revenue or headcount or whatever, and you're thinking, I must be that. I was guilty of it too, but ultimately it's about what do you want your life to be as the owner? What is this business with you? And so understanding and looking internally at what you need. What's enough? What milestone really is it? Are you being ego-driven, which is really an enemy to your success? So what are you trying to get out of it? When I was running my agency, we did talk a lot about getting bigger, but not at the sacrifice of maintaining our margin, keeping our culture healthy, and having great people. And so deciding who you really want to be, both you as an individual but you as an organization, so you're not comparing yourself to others. You have a goal in mind that is relevant for you and that makes pursuing it so much more valuable and applicable.

Adam Weil: Yeah. So what are the right targets? Because we've fallen victim to that too, just looking at what our peers are doing, going, yeah, let's chase that number, let's chase that head count. And so how do you look inward and identify—is it about listing your values or what does that process look like?

Albert Banks: Absolutely. I'm speaking to the founders directly, right? This is your business. This is here to help you and help you live out your values. And so it needs to reflect you. So be a little selfish and think about what is the thing that you want to do within the business. Really, what are the things that you are best at in your business, and how can you create a situation where you're doing the things that give you energy most of the day and provide the most value to your business? Then yes, you look at your values, which obviously come a lot from the founders and the culture they've created. And so you're starting to make decisions on what your future looks like through that lens. You can envision a particular future and say, well, at that size or at that makeup or positioning, can we still live our values? And so you need to use those as a lens to look at that future and see if it matches what you set out to do and what you want in your situation. Is getting to a certain scale going to cause you to have to do things that don't energize you and are totally outside of the realm, or you're going to have to outlay a particular amount of money and therefore your value of maintaining profitability and stability is not sustainable? So it's being a little bit selfish around what you actually want in terms of your role at the company, but also measuring your goals against your values.

How Do You Solve the Agency Management Gap?

Adam Weil: Right, right. It makes sense. So as an agency grows, I think what tends to happen is they self-promote a lot of times. And there tends to be a minimal management gap. So tell us a little bit about that. How does that happen and how do you fix that sort of problem?

Albert Banks: Yeah, it's a natural evolution as you go from that smaller team to now you're growing, you need to create structure. So you take some of your best performers, maybe your top designer or brilliant developer, and they get promoted to those leadership roles, whether it be manager, director, supervisor, whatever you want to call it. And we as owners, a lot of times we don't even have management training ourselves, and we don't provide management training for those that get elevated. So you're setting them up for failure in that respect, on the one hand, not providing them the training and expectations. But you're maybe trading a short-term problem for something long-term where you've navigated this structure so you can scale, but maybe you're going to have attrition or maybe people are going to be frustrated and you're going to end up losing people because you haven't set them up for success. At Union, how we tried to solve for this was creating career frameworks and growth. And you can do this really at any size and lay out what the structure and advancement of certain roles will be. And we made sure in certain cases, especially for the creative or technology routes, to include an individual contributor path, right? So if people felt they could grow in that role or in that department without having to be a manager if that wasn't their skillset. Whereas if others are more inclined for that, then they could take that route and then we would invest in training them and providing them the systems and tools and processes to be a good manager and have that throughout the organization.

Adam Weil: And can you give me a snapshot? What does that typically look like? Is that spending half a day on a Friday once a month doing some sort of workshop? Is it continuing weekly education? How does that actually translate into a plan?

Albert Banks: Yeah, I think for the management training side, it is picking a methodology, a training, a coach that aligns again with your values and how you want your team to be managed so that it can be rolled out to everybody who's in a management position. Whether that's having tools where you can have check-ins and one-on-ones and pulses and things. So again, creating the tools and systems and training for what you want. But laying out the organization, that's a little bit more of a task, right? Organizing what the future version of your organization might look like and how you would grow. And so I suggest people look two, four years out and say, okay, if we were to scale, what would that look like? And you go from there to where your current state is, find any holes, and then try to lay out what the differences and responsibilities might be. And then go back and look at your actual team and say, okay, what seats really do make the best sense and how could people grow? And then you can have fair conversations with them about what their future might look like, and you can give a picture of that future role, should it exist.

What is the 'Unexpressed Expectation Tax'?

Adam Weil: And the fair expectations, I think, is an important point too, because you've talked about how a lot of founders of agencies will want to have this tight-knit culture and they'll want to be liked, right? Which is natural for everyone. But there's obviously a downside to that. And you labeled it the unexpressed expectation tax. Tell us a little bit about that.

Albert Banks: Yes, and this is a quote I've stolen, but unexpressed or unagreed expectations are planned resentment. Right. So you're truly setting yourself up for resentment. And by the way, this is life advice. This is not just work. But even if it's just having a job description where you're very clear about the expectations or hey, in certain scenarios you can run with these things and you're good to go. Or in these situations, I want you to come back to me. Or even just training on management or values and this is how we behave in the organization. So making it clear to whomever, whether it be your business partner or management or any team member, what the expectations are prevents you from resenting when that behavior or that thing doesn't happen, right? And if you're not clear about those things and if you sort of avoid the tough conversations, you're going to get into this situation. And Kim Scott calls this 'ruinous empathy,' right? When you're being nice and avoiding these conversations, but ultimately the org's not moving forward, the employee is not growing, and you're actually doing more damage than you would. So having the hard conversations. Even in the systems, right? We ran EOS, and so when I joined we revamped our L10 scorecard and the whole principle of this is everybody has a number. And that's what I did. Each area of the business, there was a specific metric or two that they were responsible for. And so in our weekly meetings, they were held accountable and they had to answer the tough questions. And so we didn't just avoid when a number wasn't hitting goal or when we were in a situation where we weren't hitting our achievements, we just brought that to the surface. So that's just one example at the leadership level, but with your team, you obviously have to be kind, but if you're not clear on expectations, you're just frustrated with them all the time, that's not a good relationship.

How Do You Navigate the 'Messy Middle' of Agency Scaling?

Adam Weil: Right, right. And how do you navigate that messy middle? You know, you've mentioned that the processes to get an agency to fifteen people will completely break when they try to scale to fifty. What is the hardest part about navigating the messy middle and transitioning from a tight-knit tribe-type feeling, running on oral tradition really, to a more formalized organization?

Albert Banks: Yeah, it's a great position to be in, right? You're having success, you're growing. And I always said we have the same challenges, there's just maybe more zeros behind it. And that's what you're getting, right? More people. The way you're doing things before are not going to work, right? When everybody knows everybody at the organization and they've all been through the trenches and run things the way they've run it before, that works great. But as soon as you start growing and adding new voices, new talent to the mix, that's not all going to be translating. And so you really have to be a little bit of a bureaucrat for a while. You have to start putting some policies and processes into place so that scale is possible. And I don't mean over-process or over-policy things. I just mean things that are clear and repeatable and have always been that way. Just put it down on paper, right? So the new person that comes in, they're onboarded to those things. There's a frame of reference to go back to. It's kind of why EOS exists, right? It's a foundational sort of way to run your business that everybody can know and understand. So yeah, you have to put frameworks in place for the team to grow and scale because just everybody knowing everything is no longer possible. So yeah, you have to create some of that, and it's good for your organization because again it creates that clarity, expectations are understood, and it can help you make decisions when you're evaluating client fit or prospects or team members joining the organization. So having those things on paper will actually help you in the long term in addition to just how to scale.

How Can Founders Decouple Their Identity From the Business?

Adam Weil: Yeah. It makes sense. So it's interesting. As a founder, you put so much time, right? You learn how to be a manager, you learn how to train, you obviously learn certain specialized skills that you're going to ultimately deliver to clients and then train people to deliver. And you grow this company. It's almost a baby in a way. But as you talked about in the beginning of the call, you sort of have to detach from the business and decouple your identity from that emotional roller coaster ride. Tell us a little bit about that. How does that work and how does someone go down that path?

Albert Banks: Yeah, it's tough. I lived it, breathed it, felt it, went through the anxiety of it, the highs of winning a pitch, the sometimes relief of winning something so you can make payroll, right? The high expectations of, we're going to win this great job and then it doesn't come through. And so it really can take a toll on you, and there's a level of never getting too high, never getting too low that just has to become a part of the way you go about it. But you also have to understand that my business is not me, right? It's not necessarily a reflection of your self-worth, and its highs and its lows aren't a direct reflection necessarily of you in particular. A lot of times people look at it from the financial side, right? They look at measuring where they're trying to get to. So the advice I have to people is look at the game. Look how far you've come. We as founders don't do a good job of celebrating the victories and the achievements and the success over the years. So if you can take a look back and see how far you've come and appreciate that, the delta from where you are to where you want to get to all of a sudden doesn't look quite so ominous. And you can live in that duality of I've come a long way, yes, we still have a way to go, but you're not always chasing that next thing. So I say, try to decouple a little bit, try to have the right 'whos' in place so that you can build a little bit of a wall between the two. You can check out and not have to check email all evening or be constantly connected. So create an environment where it's possible to truly deconstruct yourself from it. But it's hard. Don't get me wrong. When you have people, when we went through due diligence, right? They're diving into your details, right? And you try to not take it personally because it has been your baby. But if you've run a good business, if you've done these things properly, you can look at it more objectively and say, okay, I'm not going to take scrutiny personally, this is a business, they're evaluating that, they're not evaluating me. So I think you create boundaries and you can also just make a decision of what you're going to reflect upon yourself versus your business.

Adam Weil: Yeah. It's good advice. Having those rules, right? Not looking at email past a certain time is maybe a small one. Even a helpful thing for me is going on vacation and just trusting my team to execute while I'm away, deleting Slack and even my email from my phone. So I just don't even have an option there. And yeah, I think those sort of things can help you start to emotionally unwind a little bit.

Albert Banks: Yeah. A lot of the founders I talk to when I'm going through a business assessment or onboarding, I'll ask them, what does the desired future say? What does it look like if we're successful in going from where we are to where you want to go? And almost inevitably it is, I would love to be able to go on vacation and not worry or not have to check on or not have to do X, Y, and Z, right? And so exactly what you're describing is the goal. And so think about that. If you were to go on vacation, what would happen? And so are those things you really need to do or those things that you could schedule in advance or pick up when you're back? Are those things that there are other 'whos' that could take up? We were big on having coverage plans, right? Even leadership had coverage plans of hey, here's the current state of things, here's what I'll take care of when I'm back. These things come up while I'm gone. Person A can handle it, B can handle it, and person C is the ultimate one who decides whether I get texted or emailed or called. Right. And so we created a system where we were insulated from that. We were trying to save ourselves and we cascaded that across the whole organization, but it's a hundred percent applicable to the founder as well.

What is the Difference Between Delegation and Abdication?

Adam Weil: Yeah. One quick question. How do you differentiate, because I've heard others talk about this and it's not totally clear to me, but defining the difference between delegation and abdication. Abdication is, as I understand it, a little bit more than delegation. You're just stepping aside, removing yourself maybe a little bit too preemptively, versus delegation is a little bit more of a process of handing things off in a more healthy way, is how I understand it. But how do you differentiate the two? Do you have a separation between those? A distinction?

Albert Banks: Yeah, it's a good question. Abdication I would be more inclined in a partner relationship, right? Where you're saying, hey, look, this is your area and I'm letting you run with it, and I'm not delegating, this is yours, you own it. So I see that a lot in partnerships, where you have maybe multiple partners, maybe someone's new business, someone's more operations or creative or whatever it may be. And so I see that a lot more. It's harder to do with an employee or even a leader that you bring into the organization because you'll probably still be looking over their shoulder quite a bit because either they could leave or you could fire them. So with a partner you're kind of stuck with them generally speaking. But delegation can be whole functions, right? You can delegate all of new business to an individual, but in that case, as the founder or partner, you're ultimately still responsible for it. So you have that level of oversight. So that's sort of the distinction I typically make when I look at the difference between those two.

What is the Best Piece of Advice for Agency Founders?

Adam Weil: Got it. So the future is changing quite rapidly. But I like a lot of what you talk about because it's very foundational. It feels applicable, it's timeless advice. But if you did have to make one bet over the next, say, three years or so, I'll give you two choices. You can pick either one bet that you're willing to put your child on. Or one piece of advice that you think everyone should hear, just one. If they had to cut out this entire podcast and just hear one piece of advice, what would that be? Which one of those would you want to go with?

Albert Banks: Man. I don't know that anybody can really predict what's going to happen in three years. So I will probably opt for the advice, which hopefully would be a little more universal. And I would say make your business work for you. And again, I'm talking to founders here. There's the quip or joke, 'I don't run my business, my business runs me.' And that's not a healthy place. I've been there. So I would encourage everybody to find a way that their business works for them. And that's going to require some fundamental work, maybe some delegation or abdication. But for you to be a healthy human and for you to be a good leader and for you to have longevity running one of these businesses, you ultimately have to feel that the relationship is healthy with the business and your role in it.

Adam Weil: Yeah. Great advice. Well, thank you, Albert, for coming on and sharing all the wisdom. I really appreciate it. Where can people follow you and learn more about you?

Albert Banks: Absolutely, you can check out my website at appertus.co or Albert Banks on LinkedIn. I try to share advice and help and join podcasts to help people along their journey. And certainly, you can reach out to me if you have something specific you want to talk about in your business. I'm happy to chat.

Adam Weil: Great. Yeah, we'll make sure all the links are included in the show notes. So thank you again, Albert. Really appreciate it.

Albert Banks: Absolutely. Thanks for having me on, Adam.